Discussion:
THE RHENIUM DART
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Si
2005-01-16 14:43:24 UTC
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Has anyone got a set of these RHENIUM DART form B&W darts ?
Johan V.
2005-01-16 16:16:14 UTC
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Post by Si
Has anyone got a set of these RHENIUM DART form B&W darts ?
No but I seriously doubt their usefulness. Their darts are 95% thungsten and
presumably 5% rhenium. Let's compare that to 95% thungsten and 5% nickel.

0.95 * 19.3 + 0.05 * 21.0 = 19.385 gram/cm3
0.95 * 19.3 + 0.05 * 8.9 = 18.78 gram/cm3

19.385 / 18.78 = 1.032

So the diameter of the dart will be 1.016 times more narrow, in other words
a dart that would normally be 5 mm thick, would then be 4.92 mm thick. Not
really something you would notice.

Not really worth the 99 pounds they charge for these exclusive darts,
especially when compared to the 12 pounds for ordinary darts
Snor
2005-01-17 04:35:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johan V.
Post by Si
Has anyone got a set of these RHENIUM DART form B&W darts ?
No but I seriously doubt their usefulness. Their darts are 95% thungsten and
presumably 5% rhenium. Let's compare that to 95% thungsten and 5% nickel.
0.95 * 19.3 + 0.05 * 21.0 = 19.385 gram/cm3
0.95 * 19.3 + 0.05 * 8.9 = 18.78 gram/cm3
19.385 / 18.78 = 1.032
So the diameter of the dart will be 1.016 times more narrow, in other words
a dart that would normally be 5 mm thick, would then be 4.92 mm thick. Not
really something you would notice.
Not really worth the 99 pounds they charge for these exclusive darts,
especially when compared to the 12 pounds for ordinary darts
Like the difference between 95% and 97% tungsten (Harrows) - the
difference translated to dart diameter is negligible. However, there is
always a market for a new gimmick, and darts mfgs are not immune to using
gobbledegook in advertising / and dubious sales gimmicks - like magnetic
darts.

It is always assumed that skinner darts allow for tighter groups, but yet
some of the top players, notably Taylor, Part, Manley, Fordham, Lowe, etc
seem to score the higher averages with fatter darts ...
Tommo ?
2005-01-17 09:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johan V.
Post by Si
Has anyone got a set of these RHENIUM DART form B&W darts ?
No but I seriously doubt their usefulness. Their darts are 95%
thungsten and
Post by Johan V.
presumably 5% rhenium. Let's compare that to 95% thungsten and 5% nickel.
0.95 * 19.3 + 0.05 * 21.0 = 19.385 gram/cm3
0.95 * 19.3 + 0.05 * 8.9 = 18.78 gram/cm3
19.385 / 18.78 = 1.032
So the diameter of the dart will be 1.016 times more narrow, in other words
a dart that would normally be 5 mm thick, would then be 4.92 mm thick. Not
really something you would notice.
Not really worth the 99 pounds they charge for these exclusive darts,
especially when compared to the 12 pounds for ordinary darts
One of the players in our team has machined his own set from
molybdenum. This doesn't seem to be a heavier, harder metal than
tungsten from what I can find on the periodic tables etc, but maybe I'm
misinterpreting the figures. Does anyone have any opinions on using
molybdenum instead of tungten alloys?
Snor
2005-01-18 05:43:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommo ?
One of the players in our team has machined his own set from
molybdenum. This doesn't seem to be a heavier, harder metal than
tungsten from what I can find on the periodic tables etc, but maybe I'm
misinterpreting the figures. Does anyone have any opinions on using
molybdenum instead of tungten alloys?
Molybdenum is almost half the density of tungsten. It's only slightly
more dense than copper, a main component of BRASS. So your team mate's
dart essentially equates to a brass dart.
Tommo ?
2005-01-18 09:54:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snor
Post by Tommo ?
One of the players in our team has machined his own set from
molybdenum. This doesn't seem to be a heavier, harder metal than
tungsten from what I can find on the periodic tables etc, but maybe I'm
misinterpreting the figures. Does anyone have any opinions on using
molybdenum instead of tungten alloys?
Molybdenum is almost half the density of tungsten. It's only
slightly
Post by Snor
more dense than copper, a main component of BRASS. So your team mate's
dart essentially equates to a brass dart.
Oh dear! They cost him a fortune to make too (expensive rods which he
lathed down). He fine tuned them over weeks, so even though this amuses
me he has a set of custom darts which seem to work for him I suppose :o)
Snor
2005-01-18 21:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snor
Post by Snor
Post by Tommo ?
One of the players in our team has machined his own set from
molybdenum. This doesn't seem to be a heavier, harder metal than
tungsten from what I can find on the periodic tables etc, but maybe
I'm
Post by Snor
Post by Tommo ?
misinterpreting the figures. Does anyone have any opinions on using
molybdenum instead of tungten alloys?
Molybdenum is almost half the density of tungsten. It's only
slightly
Post by Snor
more dense than copper, a main component of BRASS. So your team
mate's
Post by Snor
dart essentially equates to a brass dart.
Oh dear! They cost him a fortune to make too (expensive rods which he
lathed down). He fine tuned them over weeks, so even though this amuses
me he has a set of custom darts which seem to work for him I suppose :o)
Nothing wrong with making a set of molydenum darts - that makes them very
unique, and I am sure would be worth a lot to somebody just because they
are so unique. And though I never use them in competition, a favorite
set of darts of mine is a late 60s set of Unicorn brass clunkers a full
cm in diameter - they just feel nice. If one likes a light dart, they
might be just the ticket, too - though I haven't a clue what it would
feel like to handle one. Ever use them? But dense, they aren't.
Tommo ³
2005-01-19 00:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snor
Post by Snor
Post by Snor
Post by Tommo ?
One of the players in our team has machined his own set from
molybdenum. This doesn't seem to be a heavier, harder metal than
tungsten from what I can find on the periodic tables etc, but maybe
I'm
Post by Snor
Post by Tommo ?
misinterpreting the figures. Does anyone have any opinions on using
molybdenum instead of tungten alloys?
Molybdenum is almost half the density of tungsten. It's only
slightly
Post by Snor
more dense than copper, a main component of BRASS. So your team
mate's
Post by Snor
dart essentially equates to a brass dart.
Oh dear! They cost him a fortune to make too (expensive rods which he
lathed down). He fine tuned them over weeks, so even though this amuses
me he has a set of custom darts which seem to work for him I suppose :o)
Nothing wrong with making a set of molydenum darts - that makes them very
unique, and I am sure would be worth a lot to somebody just because they
are so unique. And though I never use them in competition, a favorite
set of darts of mine is a late 60s set of Unicorn brass clunkers a full
cm in diameter - they just feel nice. If one likes a light dart, they
might be just the ticket, too - though I haven't a clue what it would
feel like to handle one. Ever use them? But dense, they aren't.
OK, but he still tonight insists it is a denser metal than tungsten, and as
an aside he was involved with the wing section of that new Air Bus thingy.
It's Dan Air for me in future. He won and I lost it has to be said :o0
Snor
2005-01-19 05:30:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommo ³
OK, but he still tonight insists it is a denser metal than tungsten, and as
an aside he was involved with the wing section of that new Air Bus thingy.
It's Dan Air for me in future. He won and I lost it has to be said :o0
He's totally full of shit.

Molybdenum: 10.22 g/cm2
Tungsten: 19.30 g/cm2

Look it up; don't take my word for it. Elemental Metalurgy 101.

Aeronautical engineers like to use *LIGHTEST* stuff that will do the job,
for ANYTHING on an airplane that they can. So on that basis, molybdenum
makes sense. Because it is light.

I find the fact he was working on an Air Bus wing a little scary.

But if you want to keep a friend, letting it drop may be the best thing.
Or save it till just before your next big match with him, and show him
the nice page in the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. :-)

Cheers.
Tommo ?
2005-01-19 13:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snor
Post by Tommo ³
OK, but he still tonight insists it is a denser metal than
tungsten, and as
Post by Snor
Post by Tommo ³
an aside he was involved with the wing section of that new Air Bus thingy.
It's Dan Air for me in future. He won and I lost it has to be said :o0
He's totally full of shit.
Molybdenum: 10.22 g/cm2
Tungsten: 19.30 g/cm2
Look it up; don't take my word for it. Elemental Metalurgy 101.
Aeronautical engineers like to use *LIGHTEST* stuff that will do the job,
for ANYTHING on an airplane that they can. So on that basis,
molybdenum
Post by Snor
makes sense. Because it is light.
I find the fact he was working on an Air Bus wing a little scary.
But if you want to keep a friend, letting it drop may be the best thing.
Or save it till just before your next big match with him, and show him
the nice page in the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. :-)
Cheers.
Agreed. It's easy to fall out if you're not prepared to just let people
believe whatever they like. And why fall out with someone who could
make me my own set of custom darts? I'll just ask him to use tungsten
on my set because I don't want "heavy" ones like his, eh :o)

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